As you suggest the Church seems to have no limit to buzzwords. You mention listening, dialogue, participation, communal discernment, journey, reflection. Let's add marginalized, peripheries, special gifts, and always "the Spirit." Words with real meaning, but not as the Church now uses them.
With the very first fall of a sledge hammer to destroy the Holy Altar of Sacrifice in the late 1960's that a table might replace it, the seed of apostasy was planted. Decades later, it has grown to great height and girth.
Year after year, it has known constant grafting, producing such eye appealing fruit, that hardly a soul who eats it realizes the seeds from whence this tree grew were man-made.
It is most unfortunate that very few care to trace the origin of the seeds.
The Novus Ordo church is evolving into a group of locations all different depending on how extremely the clergy hold modernist views. From clown masses in Germany to Latin masses in South Carolina. But the center is fracturing and I cant see how it will hold together.
All those parish “Renewals” the last 50 or so years. They weren’t calls to Faith. They were synodal experiments encouraging the well-to-do Catholic white ladies to sieze the parishes.
I have heard a number of priests say that a schism is inevitable. So what would that look like? As the modernists are occupying the buildings, do the true Catholics break off and elect their own pope? Just wondering where we will go to mass.....
Agreed. But they are holding all the externals of the Church: the buildings, the offices/dicasteries/institutes, the positions of "authority". Unless they are physically expelled, it will look like we are the ones breaking off....
There is a series of videos by a former UMC pastor, Rob Renfro, about THEIR split with the UMC over LGB issues, and scriptural inerrancy. These issues are the same as what is happening in the Catholic Church. They formed a new Traditional Methodist Church (The Global Methodist Church and yes I know just another split among Protestants) He makes very important points about Traditional Faith and about the heresies their church embraced in full modernist mode. No different than the Catholic Church now. I urge you and anyone to watch his 6 YouTube video series (none of which are more than 15 minutes). Just put aside his Protestant Methodism for a moment and listen to what he has to say and you will see our dilemma in his words. Thanks.
My wife and I ran into much clericalism when we explained NFP over contraception... "I'm the father here!" was the retort most often heard when we referenced what the Church Actually Taught.
Ironic. And it seems that self deceiving projection appears to have expanded to ever more subjects within the hierarchy Itself....
“the Church ‘is not Church if we are not in mission,’” and “clericalism”
coming from the clergy, which was originally asserted by Pope Francis seemingly come from the same intent for impact to the listener.
Similar common expeession which carry the same forceful and with a hint of political effect is “defend the faith”. It sounds to imply one’s own personal conviction. instead of being as invoked in the mass after consecration, through Him, with Him, and in Him, the work that we do. I think contrasting the “defend the faith” is “guard the faith” which is more in keeping with the truth that the faith is something we have received.
Additional words I associate with the pontificate of Pope Francis: accompany; peripheries; rigid; backwardists (newly coined, I think). Hearing these words induces a reaction in me akin to that of Maynard G. Krebs on hearing the word “work.”
I know this is off subject, but I got the book ,new book,a disastrous pontificate and it is a very good book, but im disappointed because even though there is a lot of good in it it is a vat2,pushing JP2,Ratzinger,who were modernists and are responsible of the fruit of Francis and Leo. The crisis will not be solved until it is clearly acknowledged that the crisis has been going on for 60yrs not beg. with Francis. The papacy has been infiltrated by satan ! Vat2 is the source of all the errors and confusion that has ensued .Also the biggest error pushed by JP2 ecumenism, all religions lead to God is NOT acknowledged.Francis errors, many of them started with post-conciliar, all of them, pontiffs.They were throughly modernist. Also not once when discussing theology in the book was Sanctifying Grace mention, the reason the church existed in the first place. They use a vague term. This started with Vatican 2. This book is not as great as purported. Blaming Francis alone is too simplistic.
Tucker Carlson recently observed that, throughout history, populations that have been replaced by other peoples, do not fair well. They are usually killed. Faithful Catholics are now being replaced by the new synodal church and people who have left the faith over the years. In many places faithful Catholics are on the block. If true Catholics are not prepared and watching like the wise virgins, we will also not fair well, at least in a temporal sense.
“The poison was never forced — it was offered gently, until you forgot it was poison at all”
Mark Twain(?)
As you suggest the Church seems to have no limit to buzzwords. You mention listening, dialogue, participation, communal discernment, journey, reflection. Let's add marginalized, peripheries, special gifts, and always "the Spirit." Words with real meaning, but not as the Church now uses them.
(sadly)....bingo.
Most Holy Theotokos save us!
With the very first fall of a sledge hammer to destroy the Holy Altar of Sacrifice in the late 1960's that a table might replace it, the seed of apostasy was planted. Decades later, it has grown to great height and girth.
Year after year, it has known constant grafting, producing such eye appealing fruit, that hardly a soul who eats it realizes the seeds from whence this tree grew were man-made.
It is most unfortunate that very few care to trace the origin of the seeds.
The Novus Ordo church is evolving into a group of locations all different depending on how extremely the clergy hold modernist views. From clown masses in Germany to Latin masses in South Carolina. But the center is fracturing and I cant see how it will hold together.
Like watching a slow motion train wreck.
Jesus, Joseph and Mary!
All those parish “Renewals” the last 50 or so years. They weren’t calls to Faith. They were synodal experiments encouraging the well-to-do Catholic white ladies to sieze the parishes.
I have heard a number of priests say that a schism is inevitable. So what would that look like? As the modernists are occupying the buildings, do the true Catholics break off and elect their own pope? Just wondering where we will go to mass.....
We do not need to "break off", through their obstinate heresy THEY have excommunicated themselves. 😉
Agreed. But they are holding all the externals of the Church: the buildings, the offices/dicasteries/institutes, the positions of "authority". Unless they are physically expelled, it will look like we are the ones breaking off....
There is a series of videos by a former UMC pastor, Rob Renfro, about THEIR split with the UMC over LGB issues, and scriptural inerrancy. These issues are the same as what is happening in the Catholic Church. They formed a new Traditional Methodist Church (The Global Methodist Church and yes I know just another split among Protestants) He makes very important points about Traditional Faith and about the heresies their church embraced in full modernist mode. No different than the Catholic Church now. I urge you and anyone to watch his 6 YouTube video series (none of which are more than 15 minutes). Just put aside his Protestant Methodism for a moment and listen to what he has to say and you will see our dilemma in his words. Thanks.
This is a link if this is allowed:
https://youtu.be/5g48onYSqg0?si=wCtV-iTct6IlE1Am
Thank you Andrew! Will check it out.
If you do watch the videos. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
My wife and I ran into much clericalism when we explained NFP over contraception... "I'm the father here!" was the retort most often heard when we referenced what the Church Actually Taught.
Ironic. And it seems that self deceiving projection appears to have expanded to ever more subjects within the hierarchy Itself....
“the Church ‘is not Church if we are not in mission,’” and “clericalism”
coming from the clergy, which was originally asserted by Pope Francis seemingly come from the same intent for impact to the listener.
Similar common expeession which carry the same forceful and with a hint of political effect is “defend the faith”. It sounds to imply one’s own personal conviction. instead of being as invoked in the mass after consecration, through Him, with Him, and in Him, the work that we do. I think contrasting the “defend the faith” is “guard the faith” which is more in keeping with the truth that the faith is something we have received.
Additional words I associate with the pontificate of Pope Francis: accompany; peripheries; rigid; backwardists (newly coined, I think). Hearing these words induces a reaction in me akin to that of Maynard G. Krebs on hearing the word “work.”
I know this is off subject, but I got the book ,new book,a disastrous pontificate and it is a very good book, but im disappointed because even though there is a lot of good in it it is a vat2,pushing JP2,Ratzinger,who were modernists and are responsible of the fruit of Francis and Leo. The crisis will not be solved until it is clearly acknowledged that the crisis has been going on for 60yrs not beg. with Francis. The papacy has been infiltrated by satan ! Vat2 is the source of all the errors and confusion that has ensued .Also the biggest error pushed by JP2 ecumenism, all religions lead to God is NOT acknowledged.Francis errors, many of them started with post-conciliar, all of them, pontiffs.They were throughly modernist. Also not once when discussing theology in the book was Sanctifying Grace mention, the reason the church existed in the first place. They use a vague term. This started with Vatican 2. This book is not as great as purported. Blaming Francis alone is too simplistic.
Tucker Carlson recently observed that, throughout history, populations that have been replaced by other peoples, do not fair well. They are usually killed. Faithful Catholics are now being replaced by the new synodal church and people who have left the faith over the years. In many places faithful Catholics are on the block. If true Catholics are not prepared and watching like the wise virgins, we will also not fair well, at least in a temporal sense.