21 November was the half-century anniversary of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s prophetic 1974 Declaration that traditionalist orthodox Catholics could view as a sort of line-in-the-sand moment.
This is such great insight! Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s warnings feel more relevant than ever as we see how things have worsened since his time. I strongly encourage every NO parishioners to experience the Traditional Latin Mass at least once to truly understand the meaning of reverence and respect for the Eucharist.
I wholeheartedly agree regarding NO parishioners experiencing the TLM, with one caveat - once is probably not enough for most of them to gain an appreciation of the TLM. The more times they go, the deeper will be their understanding, not only of the Mass of the Ages, but also of what they have been missing in the NO.
I came into the church from an agnostic Jewish background. I became a “Christian” via Freewill Baptist to New England (Unitarian woke) Quaker experience of worship. When I became Catholic, it was through Matthew Fox’s hideous texts. I had no idea what Catholic doctrine was. I knew as much as the typical “Catholic“ did.
Strangely, briefly leaving and going into the Episcopal church was the wake up call that I needed. They said out loud, what the phony theologian priests, bishops and theologians in the Catholic Church were muttering in their beards.
I never experienced true, authentic, and reverent liturgy until I witnessed a TLM mass. I knew it was what I was seeking when I became a catechumen - but I didn’t know what it was because it was already turned into a de-colorized two-dimensioned skit of the real thing (1985).
I genuinely mourn for the N.O. attending Catholics because they’re being fed tasteless gruel and are being told that it’s a gourmet feast.
“And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.”
Another good one Lefebvre's 1976 statement in which he (correctly) identified the Conciliar/synodal church as a having it's own, new theologies, sacraments, and clergy, all based on the council documents, and distinct from the Catholic theologies, Liturgy, and clergy.
Well done. Many trads aren't familiar with Abp Lefebvre's 1974 Declaration, but only his "schismatic" 1988 consecration of four bishops. Understanding the full history of the SSPX's tensions with Rome is very important because it shows the strong antagonism of the "deep Church" against tradition spanning two pontificates. My theory is that otherwise rational trads condemn the SSPX because they haven't moved beyond the cult of JP2 the "Great." I once accepted the official "disobedient and schismatic" narrative but only because I was ignorant of the full history and had an emotional attachment to the hero pope of my youth who helped take down communism. Bishop Schneider refers to those who deride the SSPX as "Pharisees and Scribes" which is quite harsh, but I agree! I would not agree that there are "fantastic" arguments against the SSPX as they do not comprehend the nature or gravity of the spiritual war we are in and cannot see the hand of God that guided Abp Lefebvre.
When wanting to express ironically the idea that something is obviously true we have sometimes done so through rhetorical questions such as “does a one-armed man swim in circles” or “is the Pope a Catholic”. Increasingly recently, particularly since the most recent Pope took the helm, I have the sense that the answer to the second question is no longer such a foregone conclusion.
As a Protestant I have no deep knowledge of Catholic theology but the extent of difference between his pronouncements and what I was taught were the fundamental tenets of Catholicism is such that it is hard to believe that is still Catholic at his core. It seems to me that the Catholic Church, if it is to have a future, needs to look to Islam for guidance. As Lefebvre realised for a religion to matter to people it has to stand for something, unrelenting and unadulterated. Otherwise it represents nothing that potential believers don’t already get in their everyday lives. If the Catholic Church continues its current trajectory it will, as for example the Church of England almost has already, wither and die. It might take some time but the course is inevitable.
This is such great insight! Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s warnings feel more relevant than ever as we see how things have worsened since his time. I strongly encourage every NO parishioners to experience the Traditional Latin Mass at least once to truly understand the meaning of reverence and respect for the Eucharist.
AVE CHRISTUS REX!
I wholeheartedly agree regarding NO parishioners experiencing the TLM, with one caveat - once is probably not enough for most of them to gain an appreciation of the TLM. The more times they go, the deeper will be their understanding, not only of the Mass of the Ages, but also of what they have been missing in the NO.
I came into the church from an agnostic Jewish background. I became a “Christian” via Freewill Baptist to New England (Unitarian woke) Quaker experience of worship. When I became Catholic, it was through Matthew Fox’s hideous texts. I had no idea what Catholic doctrine was. I knew as much as the typical “Catholic“ did.
Strangely, briefly leaving and going into the Episcopal church was the wake up call that I needed. They said out loud, what the phony theologian priests, bishops and theologians in the Catholic Church were muttering in their beards.
I never experienced true, authentic, and reverent liturgy until I witnessed a TLM mass. I knew it was what I was seeking when I became a catechumen - but I didn’t know what it was because it was already turned into a de-colorized two-dimensioned skit of the real thing (1985).
I genuinely mourn for the N.O. attending Catholics because they’re being fed tasteless gruel and are being told that it’s a gourmet feast.
“And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.”
Jn 6:68
Another good one Lefebvre's 1976 statement in which he (correctly) identified the Conciliar/synodal church as a having it's own, new theologies, sacraments, and clergy, all based on the council documents, and distinct from the Catholic theologies, Liturgy, and clergy.
Well done. Many trads aren't familiar with Abp Lefebvre's 1974 Declaration, but only his "schismatic" 1988 consecration of four bishops. Understanding the full history of the SSPX's tensions with Rome is very important because it shows the strong antagonism of the "deep Church" against tradition spanning two pontificates. My theory is that otherwise rational trads condemn the SSPX because they haven't moved beyond the cult of JP2 the "Great." I once accepted the official "disobedient and schismatic" narrative but only because I was ignorant of the full history and had an emotional attachment to the hero pope of my youth who helped take down communism. Bishop Schneider refers to those who deride the SSPX as "Pharisees and Scribes" which is quite harsh, but I agree! I would not agree that there are "fantastic" arguments against the SSPX as they do not comprehend the nature or gravity of the spiritual war we are in and cannot see the hand of God that guided Abp Lefebvre.
When wanting to express ironically the idea that something is obviously true we have sometimes done so through rhetorical questions such as “does a one-armed man swim in circles” or “is the Pope a Catholic”. Increasingly recently, particularly since the most recent Pope took the helm, I have the sense that the answer to the second question is no longer such a foregone conclusion.
As a Protestant I have no deep knowledge of Catholic theology but the extent of difference between his pronouncements and what I was taught were the fundamental tenets of Catholicism is such that it is hard to believe that is still Catholic at his core. It seems to me that the Catholic Church, if it is to have a future, needs to look to Islam for guidance. As Lefebvre realised for a religion to matter to people it has to stand for something, unrelenting and unadulterated. Otherwise it represents nothing that potential believers don’t already get in their everyday lives. If the Catholic Church continues its current trajectory it will, as for example the Church of England almost has already, wither and die. It might take some time but the course is inevitable.