I am not SSPX and none of their chapels are near me but I have attended their Masses on a few occasions in three different states. Very impressed with their priests! I would have absolutely no qualms about joining the SSPX should I decide to move. I have done something of a deep dive with their history and it seems very clear to me that the hand of God was with Archbishop Lefebvre. Bishop Athenasius Schneider is very supportive of the Society and I think he's the holiest bishop in our Church. He referred to those who criticize the SSPX as "Scribes and Pharisees." In it's biblical context, that is a very harsh description. Malachi Martin referred to the society has part of the Underground Church. If its available to you, by all means explore it!
For well over ten years I have wondered the same things. I have asked many of my devout Catholic friends, “What do we do when the church leaves us?” The first time I asked was about 12 years ago. And my friends would not answer. Most of them have taken the position that it’s not their problem if they’re obeying the bishops and the bishops make a bad decision. They (laymen) are “covered”.
For the first time in my life I have considered Orthodoxy. I am confused by the Catholic Church. It feels impossible to know the right thing to do/believe. Everything feels tricky. If I follow my convictions and move toward SSPX ish church or Orthodoxy am I an apostate? Will I go to hell for leaving the (official) Catholic Church? What to do if/when the Vatican supports gay marriage or changes the NO Mass even more? If I follow priests who criticize the Vatican am I sinning? Am I only really searching for a church made in my image- one that caters to my preferences? What about obedience without question?
Too much to write on this note, but the situation with the Vatican and apparently weak bishops is sad for me.
I was catechised and baptised through the SSPX as an adult - I thank Our Lord every day for the graces and gifts He gave to Archbishop Lefebvre. Praying for you!
I went through a similar path, except I did not know about the Traditional Catholicism option. But as I learned of the history from Vatican II I was appalled of the sudden suppression of the TLMass (or old Mass was how I thought of it) and considering no reason to at least have an overlap period the action struck me as intentionally violent The Body of Christ, and the Pope that Sat when Vatican II was in progress was the same one the suppressed the 3rd Secrete of Fatima in 1960 which was directed (in time to warn the Body of Christ Satan was in Vatican, I sensed and still sense that I like many think the released version is incomplete or false.)
So on. Luckily we had the TLMass group it same Church on Sundays - in basement chapel - and I started going and when they moved across town I have to choose, and so went also.
But in concern I have been Catechizing myself, lately taking on-line YouTube video courses - Traditional Seminary courses and there are a lot of other Sourses - I learned about a good bit of theology of Angels and other things about the Modernists attack from outside and their Infiltrations and usurping with real power at the Pope that refused release of secrete and was in Office for Vatican II, but for many years before were taking positions throughout.
.. the Pope is legally the Pope but before and at exception he intended to betray Papal Office duties and oaths, and so never receives from God the normal Charismas, Graces, and extra focus from Holy Ghost that are pour into you by God, but instead is as empty of Holy Ghost as any Grave Sinner is.
May this comment find you and us all ever closer to God, and His Peace.
I am in the same situation. I adhere to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, particularly in its Western Form. But it is hard to hang on. The Church Hierarchy act as hirelings. We have no say in what's being foisted upon us. There is no significant and meaningful pushback. No rallying point except to hang on to Faith in Christ Jesus. But we are people made in the image of the Trinity. A communion of persons: we are not meant to live as individuals isolated from each other. But community flows from Right Worship (not the other way around), so seek out the Old Mass and Old Ways.....
I’ve recently left my parish after being refused Holy Communion because I was kneeling and plan to go to the TLM. It’s like that everywhere now. Priests and even extraordinary ministers (who are regular fixtures at the Mass) now get to choose whether we are allowed the Body and Blood of Christ based on bodily posture alone.
My rule is basically if I go to any parish and they refuse me receiving kneeling, on the tongue, I walk out. NO man will tell me I can't kneel in front of the King of Kings.
I'll happily assist at the TLM with any of these traditional Catholic groups. Each has their positives and negatives but all have the Mass of Ages. I honestly cannot reconcile the novus ordo (and what has come since) with historic Catholicism. It's a new religion that's younger than I am. It is led by bad people with nefarious intent.
Bergolio has allowed the mask to slip. I sometimes wonder if Benedict XVI understood the infiltration more as he aged, and therefore, "retired" to allow God's will to play out with the destruction of the Vatican. Maybe if we make it to heaven we'll know the story. To your main point though, it does seem to most educated and thoughtful Catholics, at this point, that Lefebrve was right. Only some are beginning to say it because the cognitive dissonance is so overwhelming. Wait two generations and Benedict XVI'S prophecy will be visible. The Church will be small, very small, scattered, and mostly hidden. The Vatican will be sold off to Muslims or secularists to pay the debts of the pedophiles, freemasons and Satanists who've occupied it for over a century...or they'll still occupy it. St. Michael, defend us in battle.
They're fine for the moment but we know the FSSP seminaries are about to get a Visitation. Both ICKSP and FSSP have Vatican II belief enshrined in their constitutions; they could be made to go bi-ritual or fully N.O. at a moment's notice, sadly. In my view, we need the SSPX and Sede groups to keep things honest. (During Lockdown these were the only groups providing access to the sacraments.)
The ICKSP were also providing access to the sacraments albeit clandestinely. Many former SSPX now attend FSSP and ICKSP churches. I’m not interested in the politics or why this is, I’m only interested in attending the traditional mass and the ethos of the organisation. My experience with the ICKSP has been overwhelmingly positive. I can not fault their approach, integrity, teaching, attitude and what’s more their absolute love of the faith and orthodoxy. My spiritual director is an ICKSP priest and I count myself as incredibly blessed. I really find this divisiveness unnecessary. If people who love tradition can’t unite, we’re in more trouble than I thought.
That's good to hear. We're unusually blessed to have ICKSP and SSPX in the next town, FSSP a doable drive away, and an independent priest (former SSPX prior) offering TLM here. I will happily assist at Mass with any of them. My experience is that many in the congregation are fine with all these groups and access more than one of them. The priests are more partisan, of course.
Practically, the varied strategies of the groups in fighting to retain the TLM (and equally trad Catholic beliefs) is helpful in the face of hostilities from the current Vatican regime. As in any defensive action, some favouring diplomacy, others negotiation, still others demanding harder lines means we're more likely to retain the necessary sacraments until Our Lord purifies the current mess. There are merits to each strategy.
The politics of the trad scene can get wearing. Keeping close to the Sacraments - wherever we're able to access them - and reading mostly from before V II keeps many of us sane. I fully respect those who find clarity and stability by staying within the fold of any traditional group. We're all ultimately working with compromises somewhere along the line.
Makes one wonder how a book like Maurice Pinay's 'The Plot Against the Church' is true. I've read only portions of it, admittedly. Great article, and I empathize with your cognitive dissonance.
I am not SSPX and none of their chapels are near me but I have attended their Masses on a few occasions in three different states. Very impressed with their priests! I would have absolutely no qualms about joining the SSPX should I decide to move. I have done something of a deep dive with their history and it seems very clear to me that the hand of God was with Archbishop Lefebvre. Bishop Athenasius Schneider is very supportive of the Society and I think he's the holiest bishop in our Church. He referred to those who criticize the SSPX as "Scribes and Pharisees." In it's biblical context, that is a very harsh description. Malachi Martin referred to the society has part of the Underground Church. If its available to you, by all means explore it!
For well over ten years I have wondered the same things. I have asked many of my devout Catholic friends, “What do we do when the church leaves us?” The first time I asked was about 12 years ago. And my friends would not answer. Most of them have taken the position that it’s not their problem if they’re obeying the bishops and the bishops make a bad decision. They (laymen) are “covered”.
For the first time in my life I have considered Orthodoxy. I am confused by the Catholic Church. It feels impossible to know the right thing to do/believe. Everything feels tricky. If I follow my convictions and move toward SSPX ish church or Orthodoxy am I an apostate? Will I go to hell for leaving the (official) Catholic Church? What to do if/when the Vatican supports gay marriage or changes the NO Mass even more? If I follow priests who criticize the Vatican am I sinning? Am I only really searching for a church made in my image- one that caters to my preferences? What about obedience without question?
Too much to write on this note, but the situation with the Vatican and apparently weak bishops is sad for me.
https://open.substack.com/pub/oriensjournal/p/when-the-path-forward-leads-back?r=3f23dn&utm_medium=ios
This article explains things so well.
I was catechised and baptised through the SSPX as an adult - I thank Our Lord every day for the graces and gifts He gave to Archbishop Lefebvre. Praying for you!
Thx for the article link. I had stumbled on that at some point but hadn’t finished reading, and lost it. Very well explained and beautifully written.
I went through a similar path, except I did not know about the Traditional Catholicism option. But as I learned of the history from Vatican II I was appalled of the sudden suppression of the TLMass (or old Mass was how I thought of it) and considering no reason to at least have an overlap period the action struck me as intentionally violent The Body of Christ, and the Pope that Sat when Vatican II was in progress was the same one the suppressed the 3rd Secrete of Fatima in 1960 which was directed (in time to warn the Body of Christ Satan was in Vatican, I sensed and still sense that I like many think the released version is incomplete or false.)
So on. Luckily we had the TLMass group it same Church on Sundays - in basement chapel - and I started going and when they moved across town I have to choose, and so went also.
But in concern I have been Catechizing myself, lately taking on-line YouTube video courses - Traditional Seminary courses and there are a lot of other Sourses - I learned about a good bit of theology of Angels and other things about the Modernists attack from outside and their Infiltrations and usurping with real power at the Pope that refused release of secrete and was in Office for Vatican II, but for many years before were taking positions throughout.
I am most comfortable with the Sedeprivationism position, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedeprivationism ..
.. the Pope is legally the Pope but before and at exception he intended to betray Papal Office duties and oaths, and so never receives from God the normal Charismas, Graces, and extra focus from Holy Ghost that are pour into you by God, but instead is as empty of Holy Ghost as any Grave Sinner is.
May this comment find you and us all ever closer to God, and His Peace.
God Bless., Steve
I am in the same situation. I adhere to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, particularly in its Western Form. But it is hard to hang on. The Church Hierarchy act as hirelings. We have no say in what's being foisted upon us. There is no significant and meaningful pushback. No rallying point except to hang on to Faith in Christ Jesus. But we are people made in the image of the Trinity. A communion of persons: we are not meant to live as individuals isolated from each other. But community flows from Right Worship (not the other way around), so seek out the Old Mass and Old Ways.....
I’ve recently left my parish after being refused Holy Communion because I was kneeling and plan to go to the TLM. It’s like that everywhere now. Priests and even extraordinary ministers (who are regular fixtures at the Mass) now get to choose whether we are allowed the Body and Blood of Christ based on bodily posture alone.
My rule is basically if I go to any parish and they refuse me receiving kneeling, on the tongue, I walk out. NO man will tell me I can't kneel in front of the King of Kings.
I'll happily assist at the TLM with any of these traditional Catholic groups. Each has their positives and negatives but all have the Mass of Ages. I honestly cannot reconcile the novus ordo (and what has come since) with historic Catholicism. It's a new religion that's younger than I am. It is led by bad people with nefarious intent.
Bergolio has allowed the mask to slip. I sometimes wonder if Benedict XVI understood the infiltration more as he aged, and therefore, "retired" to allow God's will to play out with the destruction of the Vatican. Maybe if we make it to heaven we'll know the story. To your main point though, it does seem to most educated and thoughtful Catholics, at this point, that Lefebrve was right. Only some are beginning to say it because the cognitive dissonance is so overwhelming. Wait two generations and Benedict XVI'S prophecy will be visible. The Church will be small, very small, scattered, and mostly hidden. The Vatican will be sold off to Muslims or secularists to pay the debts of the pedophiles, freemasons and Satanists who've occupied it for over a century...or they'll still occupy it. St. Michael, defend us in battle.
What about the FSSP and ICKSP?
They're fine for the moment but we know the FSSP seminaries are about to get a Visitation. Both ICKSP and FSSP have Vatican II belief enshrined in their constitutions; they could be made to go bi-ritual or fully N.O. at a moment's notice, sadly. In my view, we need the SSPX and Sede groups to keep things honest. (During Lockdown these were the only groups providing access to the sacraments.)
The ICKSP were also providing access to the sacraments albeit clandestinely. Many former SSPX now attend FSSP and ICKSP churches. I’m not interested in the politics or why this is, I’m only interested in attending the traditional mass and the ethos of the organisation. My experience with the ICKSP has been overwhelmingly positive. I can not fault their approach, integrity, teaching, attitude and what’s more their absolute love of the faith and orthodoxy. My spiritual director is an ICKSP priest and I count myself as incredibly blessed. I really find this divisiveness unnecessary. If people who love tradition can’t unite, we’re in more trouble than I thought.
That's good to hear. We're unusually blessed to have ICKSP and SSPX in the next town, FSSP a doable drive away, and an independent priest (former SSPX prior) offering TLM here. I will happily assist at Mass with any of them. My experience is that many in the congregation are fine with all these groups and access more than one of them. The priests are more partisan, of course.
Practically, the varied strategies of the groups in fighting to retain the TLM (and equally trad Catholic beliefs) is helpful in the face of hostilities from the current Vatican regime. As in any defensive action, some favouring diplomacy, others negotiation, still others demanding harder lines means we're more likely to retain the necessary sacraments until Our Lord purifies the current mess. There are merits to each strategy.
The politics of the trad scene can get wearing. Keeping close to the Sacraments - wherever we're able to access them - and reading mostly from before V II keeps many of us sane. I fully respect those who find clarity and stability by staying within the fold of any traditional group. We're all ultimately working with compromises somewhere along the line.
Exactly Andrew. I also attend the SSPX when I am away from home or indeed any traditional mass I can find! God bless.
Makes one wonder how a book like Maurice Pinay's 'The Plot Against the Church' is true. I've read only portions of it, admittedly. Great article, and I empathize with your cognitive dissonance.
https://substack.com/@frraymondtaouk?r=3f23dn&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=profile
A wonderful SSPX Priest and his sermons